Shaw v. United States Page 20

Shaw v. United States general information

Media for Shaw v. United States

Audio Transcription for Oral Argument - October 04, 2016 in Shaw v. United States

Koren L. Bell:

It equates to wrong a bank in its property rights with to deprive a -- I'm sorry -- a victim. It equates to wrong a victim in its property rights with depriving a victim of something of value, and it also equates that with cheating a victim out of something of property, and also.

To make matters even more confusing in terms of the number of formulations, it says that the mail fraud statute is limited to the infliction of pecuniary or property loss.

And so our formulations come out of the Hammerschmidt case. And what we have always asked the Court to do here is to construe intent to defraud to require, not just the intent to deceive, as the lower court instructions required, but also the intent to do that second thing, which is --

John G. Roberts, Jr.:

Thank you, counsel.

Koren L. Bell:

Thank you.

John G. Roberts, Jr.:

Case is submitted.